Low Amp Duel Vac Boosters Behind The Main High Powered Vacs.

CCWorks

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I Got to thinking that when running two high powered duel vac (14 amps each) system in parallel, you may have about 200 to 300 CFMs and 150" vacuum pressure.

When adding a duel vac booster system behind the main two vac system to increase lift (vacuum pressure) reading. From what I understand is that the two back end vacs may have heat problems or draw more amps and pop breakers or cause one to use 4 cords.

What if we wanted just a bit more lift to run longer hoses using one cord with two vacs?

OK this idea is:
If using two vacs at 6 amps each as the back end vacs on a booster, we may fry the vacs due to the power the front two main vacs have, causing the back end vacs to spin to fast.

Vacs have a orifice size of about 0.62 inch to reach max air watts, the peak of CFMs and Lift combined.
So I think the back end hose diameter dose not really need to be much bigger then one inch or 1.5"

If getting peak performance of the two back end vacs is 0.62" each, why not use a one inch hose at about a foot long?

OK, now we have a one inch hose and now we add a disk in the hose that stops all air flow. Now drill a 0.62 inch hole in that disk.
Get a ( T ) tee (coupler) with three open ends, one for the hose coming from the main vacs (one hose per motor) one for the other back end vacs hoses. hose size must be 2" from the main vacs to the Tee (coupler) the other hose should be 1" or 1.5" to the back end vacs.
The third hole on the Tee is open.
Now get a hinge and connect a disk that covers the hole, make sure it is strong and light.
Point the third hole up, or any way you want, but if it pointed down then it must be spring loaded so it may close.
The trick to using low amp vacs on the back end is the vent.
This third hold should act like a vent for high CFMs coming from the front motors (pressure relief)

So what should happen is that, when your CFMs are high the vent opens, when your CFMs drop from the two main vacs exhaust, it would drop the lid, allowing the two back end vacs to engage in adding power to your system.

I think that when you drop the wand on damp carpet on a long hose run, the lid will drop and the two vacs on the booster will now add 50 to 60 CFMs and 50 to 60 inches of vacuum pressure (lift)
with out burning out the boosters low powered vac motors.

This can also be used in a one box system with 4 vacs.

If I think hard enough, I may work this idea in to a front end inline booster, that was my first idea 2 years ago when I suggested a duel vac inline booster with a governor. :)
 
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Larry Cobb

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Vacs have a orifice size of about 0.62 inch to reach max air watts, the peak of CFMs and Lift combined.
So I think the back end hose diameter dose not really need to be much bigger then one inch or 1.5"

If getting peak performance of the two back end vacs is 0.62" each, why not use a one inch hose at about a foot long?

OK, now we have a one inch hose and now we add a disk in the hose that stops all air flow. Now drill a 0.62 inch hole in that disk.
:)
Sorry, but this is a bad idea.

The small hole will restrict max airflow,

and decrease lift at the wand in operation.

Larry
 
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CCWorks

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Sorry, but this is a bad idea.

The small hole will restrict max airflow,

and decrease lift at the wand in operation.

Larry
Maybe you do not understand...

When I got my new Mytee, rated at 230 CFMs and 144" lift using two high powered vacs. it came with a ball float wire cage that had a 1.25 diameter hole. Not real sure how you can say a .75 inch hole is too small when using one vac. Because two vacs sharing a 1.25 inch hole equals 0.75 inch per vac.
 
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CCWorks

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Look at it this way Larry,

Two high powered vacs in parallel produce 150 inch of lift and 250 CFMs. Now let try to add a third vac in series to the two front parallel vacs. All three vacs are rated the same.

With out the relief valve the back end vac will burn up because it will spin too fast, much faster then by its self.

Now lets add a three way tee using 2" hose on all connections. Add the disk with a 0.75 inch hole, in the 2' vacuum hose just behind the tee that goes to the third vac. Let say the 0.75 inch hole is the manufactures recommend size for max lift and air flow. What is the problem here?

Any how with the relief valve, the higher CFMs will blow out of the vent (in theory), saving the third vac from spinning to fast and popping breakers or burning the vac up.

This idea is to increase lift when needed...
 
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locko-fabara

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I did test the 2 small motor booster and they work great
Jim Morrow (Jim Steam) have been using the 2 small motor series booster for over than 600 hours and still fine.
this set up not only increase lift but cfm also.
 
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CCWorks

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I did test the 2 small motor booster and they work great
Jim Morrow (Jim Steam) have been using the 2 small motor series booster for over than 600 hours and still fine.
this set up not only increase lift but cfm also.
I think he uses long hoses (100 foot plus) and maybe small open ended tools that always limit CFMs.

Every time I used a back end or front inline booster and changed tools (open hose) or laid down the wand, rotovav 360i, open flow, I would pop a breaker on the booster. I do not use boosters any more just because they pop breakers every time I use them. I run 50' or 75' 2" hose runs with a 360, 3 pick up RV or add a 1.5" x 4' whip to the 2" hose with wand and stair tool.
 
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Jan Sullins

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I changed out everything in the vacuum system of a older
CA Recoil 3 . First I changed out the vac motor that is on
the same circuit as the 500 psi pump/1/3HP motor to an
Electro 084 high performance 3 stage (same one Mytee uses)
On the other side I installed as the secondary vacuum another
Electro but model 052 which is a 605 air watt 2 stage with 131 cfms
and then it in series with that a small 033 Electro 2 stage which
runs at 7 amps. Combined lift of the 052+033 to 170 inches . The
3 stage while rated at 148" I get 138" +or- 3". The result was an
incredible improvement over the stock setup. Really the 3 stage
acts as a vacuum relief valve as the lift is less than the 052 with the
033 in series. So while still having
a lot of lift at the wand I also have more cfms than like a dual 3 stage.
Of course I am using 3 vacuum motors . But it works and seems to work
well. I get better cleaning and faster drying times than ever. I have yet
to actually put it in my van and do a job where I need over 100 feet but
I think it would do very well. Have used it portable with 50 feet 2" vacuum hose.
I have had some of the same concerns that Greg posted . It seems like
a small motor would possibly restrict cfms and also its life drastically
shortened. I know that Jim Morrows case this has not proved to be true
as Locko points out his 2 small 2 stages which are behind two 8.4 2 stages
have over 600 hours. As far as popping breakers it is not a problem with
Jim Morrow's setup and it isn't so far a problem with my upgraded Recoil.
 

Jimsteam

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I think he uses long hoses (100 foot plus) and maybe small open ended tools that always limit CFMs.

Every time I used a back end or front inline booster and changed tools (open hose) or laid down the wand, rotovav 360i, open flow, I would pop a breaker on the booster. I do not use boosters any more just because they pop breakers every time I use them. I run 50' or 75' 2" hose runs with a 360, 3 pick up RV or add a 1.5" x 4' whip to the 2" hose with wand and stair tool.
3 jobs today all 75 ft runs. 2 inch hose all the way to a 1.5 wand. No leader (whip) hose.
You have the right mindset , restricting air flow will reduce amperage. Ed V. did this with the 1 1/4 hoses within the Recoil cabinet. My personal testing showed no difference in performance ATM 2 inch vs 1 1/4 hoses OR motors direct to recovery tank.
Restrict your open flow . I set hose end down so it butts up to a section of the hose or ? thus causing restriction and lowering amperage. A glide will restrict some flow which I always use.
Your motors probably draw more amperage at "idle" than the 8.4s or the 2 2 stage motors as my rear booster.
I still occasionally pop breakers with the ONE 15 amp circuit that I need to run ALL four motors beside the Genny. Always the poor wiring on location usually 100 amp not 200 amp service. PITA
 

matt7

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Look at it this way Larry,

Two high powered vacs in parallel produce 150 inch of lift and 250 CFMs. Now let try to add a third vac in series to the two front parallel vacs. All three vacs are rated the same.

With out the relief valve the back end vac will burn up because it will spin too fast, much faster then by its self.

Now lets add a three way tee using 2" hose on all connections. Add the disk with a 0.75 inch hole, in the 2' vacuum hose just behind the tee that goes to the third vac. Let say the 0.75 inch hole is the manufactures recommend size for max lift and air flow. What is the problem here?

Any how with the relief valve, the higher CFMs will blow out of the vent (in theory), saving the third vac from spinning to fast and popping breakers or burning the vac up.

This idea is to increase lift when needed...

Seriously though, have thought about designing paper airplanes???
 

CCWorks

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After seeing a post about the Mytee Air-23 Vacuum Booster, I thought I should add that the vent (tee) needs to be customized a bit.

The disk needs to be on a slant ( / ) coming even on the back side, under the outlet vent, also with the hole on the bottom of the slant and may be a small deflector bump or another disk cut in half, place that in front of the bottom hole on the main disk. This would help lift the vent lid and create less air flow pressure on the back end vac. And or make the hole a bit smaller then Mfg. suggested orifice size.

You may want to have a vac hose on the vent for exhaust, bypassing the back vac and reconnecting to the back vacs exhaust. doing this may create a venturi valve effect too, reducing the air flow pressure by opening the pressure relief.

Just rambling...

.
 
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StevenB.

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Look at it this way Larry,

Two high powered vacs in parallel produce 150 inch of lift and 250 CFMs. Now let try to add a third vac in series to the two front parallel vacs. All three vacs are rated the same.

With out the relief valve the back end vac will burn up because it will spin too fast, much faster then by its self.

Now lets add a three way tee using 2" hose on all connections. Add the disk with a 0.75 inch hole, in the 2' vacuum hose just behind the tee that goes to the third vac. Let say the 0.75 inch hole is the manufactures recommend size for max lift and air flow. What is the problem here?

Any how with the relief valve, the higher CFMs will blow out of the vent (in theory), saving the third vac from spinning to fast and popping breakers or burning the vac up.

This idea is to increase lift when needed...
Too complicated. So many other things like power consumption requirements vs a conventional truckmount, filtration and general design focused on ease of maintenance and durability. I like your theory crafting on the subject however.
 

CCWorks

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Too complicated. So many other things like power consumption requirements vs a conventional truckmount, filtration and general design focused on ease of maintenance and durability. I like your theory crafting on the subject however.
You can always add a lift gate to close the third vac hose connection if you can not find the power onsite to power the booster vac, the third vac.

Imagine 6 vacs, 2 set of three.

http://www.truckmountforums.com/threads/greener-carpet-cleaner-portable-extractor-concept.15876/








http://www.truckmountforums.com/threads/concepts-for-carpet-cleaning-tools-and-gizmos.45276/
 
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CCWorks

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This is a demo of the idea.

I have a check valve that takes a bit of pressure to open the valve and that pressure helps restrict the air flow to the third vac booster until its needed. The check valve also allows you to use only two vacs if you have 3 vacs mounted in a portable..

 
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Jan Sullins

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Greg thank you for the video. I am sure it could
be put together in such a way so that the vacuum system of 2 3 stages in parallel with one in series to both would work. It is a viable option . I will try to put some thought into how it could be implemented in a more compact fashion. The increase in vacuum was quite apparent and would certainly be worth the addition 15 amp circuit that would be required to run it. Good job!

Jan
 
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Odin

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I'm going to have some strawberry ice-cream
 

StevenB.

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I think he uses long hoses (100 foot plus) and maybe small open ended tools that always limit CFMs.

Every time I used a back end or front inline booster and changed tools (open hose) or laid down the wand, rotovav 360i, open flow, I would pop a breaker on the booster. I do not use boosters any more just because they pop breakers every time I use them. I run 50' or 75' 2" hose runs with a 360, 3 pick up RV or add a 1.5" x 4' whip to the 2" hose with wand and stair tool.
Your base unit is drawing too much current to add a booster for many jobs. You need a generator. As mentioned before I enjoy reading the theory crafting aspect...that being said there are too many bends in your airflow. I have some heat concerns as well whenever vacs are hooked in series. That isn't to suggest there aren't options available to make a series vac more reliable.