peroxide cleaners for wool, really?

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team chile

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#1
I am looking for advice on the use of hydrogen peroxide based cleaners to use on wool. I have always been told to stay away from peroxide, bleaches , etc. when it comes to wool. The p.h. of it diluted is neutral, to acidic. What does it actually do to wool that makes it problematic. If you are listening Lisa, please respond.
Thanks,
Frank
 

mrcarpet

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#2
All oxidizers harm Wool and Cotton by chemically breaking the bonds that hold the structure together.
Sometimes, a trained professional is asked to take on a "salvage attempt" on a piece where harmful solutions are applied as a calculated risk, but those actions should not be taken lightly. These steps are also discussed with the rug owner prior to application, and informed, written consent is gained.
 
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#3
Oxidizers dont harm cottons,infact you have to use sodium per carbonate to brighten up the fabric. I use oxidizers all the time to clean cottons,just remember to buffer your cleaning agent when using boosters.
 

mrcarpet

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#4
Josh, not to be argumentative here, but oxidizers are more harmful to cotton (cellulosic) than they are to wool (protein). In fact, the test for past heavy oxidizer use in cotton fringes of rugs is to "tug" on the fringe: if it comes apart and pulls, oxidizers have been used and have damaged it.
Again, not to argue; I just like information correct.
 
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rob allen

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#5
Try cleaning this pissy wool rug without an oxidizer.

 
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#6
That's bad Rob, Did she say kitty only peed on it 2 times? Just happened to me that way till I flipped and showed her the laminated backing covered in piss spots. id say about 40 spots visible.
I just been soaking them longer when they get like that. Works good so far, but I have had them in for 24 hours after I spray down both sides with vinegar solution and allowed to dry, clear rinse then add solution and pit is filled. It is slow though. But so far all is good this way. I don't have but maybe 5 rugs on a good week.
 
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#7
Try cleaning this pissy wool rug without an oxidizer.


Rob, check this one out:

http://questfloorcare.com/2013/04/cleaning-fine-area-rugs-that-have-pet-urine-in-them/

Not a single oxidizer used. Lots of water, some elbow grease, UPT and Triple Deo Shampoo. I didn't have Wool Medic and Hydrocide for Wool from Bridgepoint at the time, but it works the same way.

NO OXIDIZERS.

I'm not trying to be "pissy", and start a fight, but Rob Decker's info above is dead on correct.
 
Sep 30, 2009
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#8
Rug story here. So i picked up a 8x10 fairly new rug covered in pee. some visible but lot more not visible. navy blue mainly. Lady rolled it up and had it on her porch for me cause she had to leave. I smelled it but it had aired a little being outside. So I picked it up and put it in my yukon xl over the seats.
Worked late that night. Didn't get stirring outside to unload till about 2:30 next day . Plus I need help, cause it was nightmare to load by myself. It was about 90 degrees that day. And man let me tell you. I swung those doors open and ran. left every door open for an hour before returning. Smell hung on for about 5 hours after unloading.
Ok I cleaned with method above and loaded rug the day promised for delivery. I called and no one there at the house. So had to wait till next day. Same thing walk out to truck. Close to 90 degrees. Open the doors and no smell. It made my chest swell up. That was a good test of what I am doing is right or wrong. While maybe not the quickest or the most technical it does work. This rug odor was BAD as it gets. And I sealed it in a hot truck rolled up for almost 24 hours. fixing to get 5 from one location with no pee ..I am excited ...My first non pee wool rugs. Gonna bang them out
As far as oxidizers I would like to know more about limits. But I am fine with neutralizing then long soak and 2 rinses for the moment.
 
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#9
Rug story here. So i picked up a 8x10 fairly new rug covered in pee. some visible but lot more not visible. navy blue mainly. Lady rolled it up and had it on her porch for me cause she had to leave. I smelled it but it had aired a little being outside. So I picked it up and put it in my yukon xl over the seats.
Worked late that night. Didn't get stirring outside to unload till about 2:30 next day . Plus I need help, cause it was nightmare to load by myself. It was about 90 degrees that day. And man let me tell you. I swung those doors open and ran. left every door open for an hour before returning. Smell hung on for about 5 hours after unloading.
Ok I cleaned with method above and loaded rug the day promised for delivery. I called and no one there at the house. So had to wait till next day. Same thing walk out to truck. Close to 90 degrees. Open the doors and no smell. It made my chest swell up. That was a good test of what I am doing is right or wrong. While maybe not the quickest or the most technical it does work. This rug odor was BAD as it gets. And I sealed it in a hot truck rolled up for almost 24 hours. fixing to get 5 from one location with no pee ..I am excited ...My first non pee wool rugs. Gonna bang them out
As far as oxidizers I would like to know more about limits. But I am fine with neutralizing then long soak and 2 rinses for the moment.
I don't really let the rugs "soak", per se. Potential for bleed makes me twitch.

Oxidizers: Don't use them unless there is NO OTHER OPTION. Even then, make it the customer's decision. Explain the risks, and ask them what THEY want to do.

I'm not even going to try to explain the damage it does on molecular level to wool/cotton. Call Paul Lucas at Chemmax, and tell him I sent you to ask. That dude's knowledge about the subject is encyclopedic. He'll tell you some really interesting shtuff.
 

barefoot

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#10
I have used hydrogen peroxide on white wool rugs and white t shirts ( my own). I can definately report that the approx 10% concentration I used (I believe that converts to 30 vol) does damage the wool and cotton in that it leaves behind a light yellow green tint.

acidic rinse was used to mostly eliminate reduce the yellow/ green tint. Proceed w/ caution.!
 
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#11
I don't really let the rugs "soak", per se. Potential for bleed makes me twitch.

Oxidizers: Don't use them unless there is NO OTHER OPTION. Even then, make it the customer's decision. Explain the risks, and ask them what THEY want to do.

I'm not even going to try to explain the damage it does on molecular level to wool/cotton. Call Paul Lucas at Chemmax, and tell him I sent you to ask. That dude's knowledge about the subject is encyclopedic. He'll tell you some really interesting shtuff.
I only had one slight bleed doing this. And only difference is I didn't let it sit with vinegar solution long enough then rinse before soaking. I felt like I rushed it and it bit me in the ass. Spot wasn't bad enough for custy to notice but I did. She was just glad to get smell out. But that was my warning about rushing. It actually rinsed out mostly . Looked worse before I rinsed and extracted.
When I get a cimex I plan on cutting my soak time down dramatically . Like you say.
 
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#12
I have used hydrogen peroxide on white wool rugs and white t shirts ( my own). I can definately report that the approx 10% concentration I used (I believe that converts to 30 vol) does damage the wool and cotton in that it leaves behind a light yellow green tint.

acidic rinse was used to mostly eliminate reduce the yellow/ green tint. Proceed w/ caution.!
So what do you use now for fringes?
 
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#13
Clean them the same way you do the rug. Put some LST or WoolPerfect on them, get down on your hands and knees, and hit them with a brush, then spray off. Cotton is harder to clean that way, but it can be done, and will help maintain the rug longer.
 

SAA

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#14
Interesting comments here. I certainly do not wish to cause any arguments or controversy but there is nothing like doing the work your self and figuring out what will and what will not work.

If I may simply add a point or two that may help with a little adjustment.

Cotton is damaged by strong mineral acids and the stabilizer of much hydrogen peroxide is an acid, usually in the phosphoric family. When used to clean the cotton fringe of a rug, this is what will degrade the cotton fringe unless it is neutralized. Cotton loves strong alkaline that is why we can use the perborate family of oxidizers on cotton and not have a problem. After all, hydrogen peroxide is corrosive and works like a descaler in removing soils.

Now, for my personal feelings and beliefs as well as many years of cleaning wool area rugs, and many of them multiple times over many years, I just have not found it to be a problem cleaning rugs with oxidizers in the perborate family and then rinsing it very well.

Below you can see a hook latch rug, wool that has been cleaned at least 15 times with sodium percarbonate in the last 13 years, possibly more and it is in great shape and no dry rot or deterioration, several of these have been done this same way just like this rug.

Other delicate and fragile rugs cleaned the same way

Upholstery, cotton prints, I just do not know how to get the oxidized oils out and the colors to 'pop' like I want them to, without the oxygen in the cleaning, although never do I use hydrogen peroxide personally.

Just some thoughts to possible put a little of what is said in perspective, and then again maybe not.

SAA
 

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Todd the Cleaner

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#15
I saw this thread just in time. I picked up a wool rug today with several urine stains and was thinking to myself on the way home that I might try some peroxide on the stains. I guess I will not.

Now, for my personal feelings and beliefs as well as many years of cleaning wool area rugs, and many of them multiple times over many years, I just have not found it to be a problem cleaning rugs with oxidizers in the perborate family and then rinsing it very well.

Below you can see a hook latch rug, wool that has been cleaned at least 15 times with sodium percarbonate in the last 13 years, possibly more and it is in great shape and no dry rot or deterioration, several of these have been done this same way just like this rug.

Other delicate and fragile rugs cleaned the same way

Upholstery, cotton prints, I just do not know how to get the oxidized oils out and the colors to 'pop' like I want them to, without the oxygen in the cleaning, although never do I use hydrogen peroxide personally.

Just some thoughts to possible put a little of what is said in perspective, and then again maybe not.

SAA
Steve, would Boost all be ok to try on a urine stained wool rug?
 

SAA

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#16
Hi Todd,
You caught me just before shutting everything down. That is what I use all the time and have for over 26 years at least. I can say I have never had a problem with it but that does not mean you should not test it. I will try to send you a couple of videos to show you what I do, the rug in the video was one that was in a Water Damage and the restoration company cleaned it and no one was happy. The insurance company referred me and also paid the bill, the entire rug was cleaned and I will also share with you how it was finished with the color migration that was on it. I hope it helps you.
SAA
 
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#17
Thank you for the clarification, Steve. I'd been wondering how cotton shampoos worked, as I was pretty sure they were oxidizers of some sort, but hadn't had time to dig deep into it and ask around, yet. Working on some cotton upholstery now, and OxyBuff is the only thing that will do.
 

rob allen

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#18
Nice posts Steve. Question,do you always favor sodium per-carbonate oxidizers over liquid peroxide?
 

SAA

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#19
Glad it helps Joseph.

Thanks Rob, as for h2o2, I do use it some because it is a very aggressive oxidizer but not much, when I do, I always neutralize the acid and then I can use it on a fringe if I want to but this is a last resort as the neutralizing process also boosts the power of the h2o2, so I watch that carefully. I also use it on upholstery as well but you simply have to understand how to use it, by itself I simply will not use it on anything with cotton. I find the powder works wonderfully for me. If neither of these work, then I go more aggressive in another direction, such as when I have to clean outside mold ridden upholstery but that is another subject.

Oxidizers work well because they remove things that detergent will not or seems to not move, and the action of these work very aggressively as a descaling item but on fabric or carpet.

Anyway this is what I have learned and hope it helps, I would hate to clean without these items and understanding how to accelerate these even more really helps but I step up into the process I do not just dump them onto everything I clean but I usually use them in some form on most things I clean, if that makes sense.
Anyway, got to go to work.

Rob let me know if those videos helped with your job.

SAA
 
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